Ah. I see. So Ayame-chan herself stumbled into this reality with Tartarus, as you yourself did? Into the arms of a sinister woman with a plan to save them both? [Makima couldn't infer much about the voice on the tape, but the way they're talking about the "witch", why not guess about a woman.]

Did you not actually kidnap her at all?

[This is adding a lot of nuance to his actions...]